Nigel Farage defends his seat in the European Parliament 60 Minutes Australia

But you’re known, I suppose, as Mr. Brexit, you know.

Well that’s what Donald Trump calls me, so yeah.

Is it something you wear with honor?

Oh, absolutely. I mean, look, I think I’ve managed, and albeit took me over 20 years of hard work, I think I’ve managed to change the whole political debate in this country by saying something that many people privately thought but no one dared speak. And so, yeah, I’ve changed political debate in this country, but, you know, I’m now a frustrated man because it’s not being delivered.

When you look at the state of U.K. politics now and the utter paralysis it’s in, are you to blame for the U.K. being in this situation?

I said, in 2012, that I was going to cause an earthquake in British politics, and we’ve still got the aftershocks of that initial earthquake and I think there’s a strong possibility now that the two party system that for 100 years has dominated British politics is about to fall apart. We’re about to get new electoral choices in this country. Is change a bad thing? No, I think change could be a very good thing.

Do you believe that during the referendum you explained the situation properly to voters?

Absolutely. Absolutely. I said we’re going to be independent, we’re going to be free. I can’t guarantee what deals come in the future which is why I coined the phrase, no deal is better than a bad deal. But, you know, what price freedom? What price democracy? What price being an independent, self-governing nation? That is what Brexit is all about.

But you campaigned for leave, you didn’t have a plan on what the country should do once it did leave.

I had absolutely a plan. I said as I had said for 25 years, we should negotiate a simple free trade agreement. I couldn’t have been clearer. I wanted to have a simple trade deal, but not membership of any political club.

Once the leave voters had won the referendum, why did you quit as leader of UKIP?

Well, because we’d won and getting out of a top’s always a good thing in life. It’s good advice to everybody. There’s an old saying that all political careers end in failure. I thought well I’ll try and make sure mine doesn’t end in failure, but I couldn’t see what more I could do, frankly, at that moment in time.

You’re saying voters have every right to feel betrayed by this prolonged process of trying to achieve Brexit.

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Would the voters behind UKIP not feel betrayed after you left them after persuading them to vote leave?

Well they had, they’d had 25 years of my life. I’d ruined my life to build a political party. I’d given them everything for 25 years.

So that’s your excuse for leaving UKIP? Because you’ve had enough.

It’s not an excuse. I’d let a party from in the fringe of the fringe to winning a national election to forcing a referendum, to helping to win it. I couldn’t see at that moment in time what more there was to do.

But this is the turning point in U.K. politics that you’ve identified yourself as history making moment in U.K. politics and you left.

And I was excluded from the next stage of the process. There wasn’t any more I could do.

But couldn’t you agitate for change more as a powerful leader of UKIP?

Well, where was I to go on? Was I to give it 50 years or 60 years or 70? Here we are three years on and it hasn’t happened, which is why I’m now going to have to reenter the political fray. I’d rather not have to, but I’m going to do it.

So you’ve had enough of politics but you have reentered politics.

I’ve got no choice. I’ve got no choice. I can’t give something 25 years of my life and watch our career politicians roll it over and just stand aside. So now I’m coming back. It is 90% likely that we will fight the European elections again in this country on May the 23rd. Yeah. I’ll be in that battle.

It sounds like somewhat of a contradiction to me.

Doesn’t it? Of course it does, but life is full of all sorts of strange ironies. I would much rather not have to do this, but I’m going to do it, and we will win again.

Hello, I’m Sarah Abo. Thanks for watching. To keep up with the latest from 60 Minutes Australia, make sure you subscribe to our channel. You can also download the 9Now app for full episodes and other exclusive 60 Minutes content.

Nigel Farage Swings for Europe this Ryder Cup

There now follows a Party Political Golf Broadcast on behalf of Paddy Power.

I’m Nigel Farage, and I love Europe. No, I really do. The wine, the food, the excellent transport systems, the clogs, and the greatest golfers in the world. The Ryder cup is upon us, and here are my reasons why you, me, everybody should get behind Team Europe. Now, watch this drive.

Reason number one? Easy. Rory McIlroy, lovely Rory. And what’s the best the USA have got to offer? Jim Furyk, the man whose swing has been described as a one armed golfer using an ax to kill a snake inside a telephone booth.

The last time the USA won here was back in 1993, when 2 Unlimited were number one. And in the words of 2 Unlimited, “There’s no, no, no, no limit to the talent of this young European team.”

The names, Hunter, Bubba, Webb. They’re not names, they’re just noises. Give me noble, heroic names any day, like Henrik, Sergio, or Justin.

There’s no Tiger Woods, he’s hurt his back. How did you do that, Tiger? Carrying the hopes and dreams of a nation on your shoulders? To quote the great lyricist and golf fanatic Justin Timberlake, “Cry me a river America,” and preferably a great European river, like the Rhine, or the Ouse.

We will fight them on the fairways. We will fight them in the bunkers. We will fight them all the way to the 18th green. This is our Ryder Cup, and we’re not going to give it away. And certainly not to some flag waving fist pumping, “Get in the hole”, shouting Americans. So, come on you lot, swing for Europe. Your continent needs you.

I’m coming back Farage adresses EU Parliament

Speaker 1:
Mr. Farage, five minutes.

Nigel Farage:
Thank you. Good morning.

Nigel Farage:

Well, I have tried for 20 years to do myself out of this job, and I thought I had succeeded. Little did I realize what the UK political class would do. So, the morning message is I’m coming back. In fact, lots and lots of us are coming back because Mr. Verhofstadt is right. Yes, I said that. First time ever. You’re quite right. The Brexit Party will sweep the board in these elections, and there is only one way it can be stopped. And that is if the governing party of Mrs. May and the opposition of Mr. Corbyn come together, and agree to a permanent customs union, and indeed, effectively, membership of the single market. If that happens, the Brexit Party won’t win the European elections, but it will win the general election because the betrayal will be so complete and utter. So, I don’t believe it’s going to happen.

Nigel Farage:
And as 15 years as the joint or sole president of a group, I have been to dozens of European summits and, again and again, I’ve seen conflict between nation states and the European institutions, whether it was the Austrians or the Irish or the Hungarians or, indeed, the Greeks. And there is one golden rule, always, and that is that Brussels wins. The power and might of Brussels always wins. But I’ve never been to a European summit quite like last week, where for the second time in two weeks, a British prime minister comes along and begs … begs for an extension to Article 50.

Nigel Farage:
It was humiliating, not just to be in Brussels, but humiliating for the standing of our country around the world. You know, the Commonwealth, America, many of these countries that actually like us, still believe that we’re a great nation, and yet we have sunk to this. A prime minister that promised us we’d leave on the 29th of March, that then said we might leave on the 12th of April, that we definitely leave on the 30th of June, and now we’re being told we’ll leave on the 31st of October. Halloween trick or treaty, make your minds up. And if it’s your last day, Mr. Juncker, well I hope that we leave together on that day. But, actually, if it’s left to this appalling prime minister, if it’s left to our politicians in Parliament, I know that it’s not going to happen.

Nigel Farage:
In the past, I know I’ve always criticized the power without accountability of senior bureaucrats in Brussels but, for once, I have to say that this mess is not your fault. Your position has been clear from the start. The mess is the fault of British politics, of two parties who both promised us in their manifestos, they would deliver Brexit, who signed up to Article 50, which expressly said we would leave, with or without a deal. That is where the betrayal is.

Nigel Farage:
And I do share with members great sadness of that appalling tragedy of the Notre Dame being burnt down yesterday. Something very beautiful has been lost. But something very vital is being lost in the United Kingdom, and I thought the deaths column of the Times newspaper yesterday summed it up rather well. UK Democracy, on the 29th of March, 2019, page 312. “It was with sad regret that democracy died quietly in her sleep at 11:00 PM on March the 29th, 2019. The cause of death was foul play, and the culprits have yet to be brought to justice. Democracy campaigned for the rule of law, human rights, and always, always favored the majority in her decisions. She will be sorely missed. God have mercy on our soul.”

Nigel Farage:
What is happening in British politics beginning on May the 23rd isn’t now just about Brexit, isn’t now just about us leaving the European Union. It’s about what kind of country we are. We have the oldest, longest-serving, continuous parliament in the world, the mother of parliaments. We have fought and given much for that principle of nation-state democracy, not just for us, but for our friends in Europe too.

Nigel Farage:
I sense among some in my country, disillusionment. But in others, I sense a burning anger. Not one to put on a yellow vest and protest, but one that says we need a peaceful political revolution in our country. We need to sweep away the two-party system that has let us down so badly. And I think you’re all going to be very, very surprised by what happens on May the 23rd. It will be a new future for British democracy and, goodness me, it’s needed.

Members:
Hurray!

Watch Nigel Farage Brilliantly React to Stunning Questions in epic Q&A section

Hi, Iliana Oscar. I’m with the Washington Ireland Program. Sorry, it’s a bit of a selfish question, but you advocate that the UK should leave the EU. Northern Ireland currently and tax reasons are about 11 billion a year, yet they take about 23 billion from the UK purse. They’ve also had an awful lot of money recently from the European Peace Fund. I was wondering if you’ve considered the implications for Northern Ireland leaving the EU.

Oh money, isn’t it great? Wonderful, isn’t it? I tell you what. You give me 20 quid, and I’ll give you 10 quid back. You then tell the room how much better off you are, because that’s effectively what’s happening.

We as a nation, put £55 million a day into the European Union. Coincidentally, haven’t had their account signed off, but the order is for 18 years in a row, but nevermind. And we get about half of that money back. Most of that money comes back to pay people to own land. And indeed, as Roger will tell you, to put those wonderful wind turbines on them. They’re terrific wind turbines, they really work well. Roger will explain it all later, I’m sure. So we get about half of our money back.

We’re a massive net contributor to this union in terms of pure cash, but if you actually look up a cost to small business, of an excessive rule book … Whether it’s environmental or health and safety, or employment legislation … When you actually quantify what the costs are, they are massive.

What the EU are very good at doing, they’re good at trying to buy people off with their own money. I’ve often said that Stalin used to kill his opponents, and what the European Union do, is to bribe their opponents. And so we get people like Neil Kinnock, who was the last Prime Ministerial contender to advocate in the ’80s we should not be part of this political project. And they make him European Commissioner for ten years, and give him a great big salary.

As far as Northern Ireland’s concerned, they tried their very best in Brussels to show how wonderful they are by supporting various peace initiatives. Despite all of that, actually Northern Ireland is probably the most Euro skeptic place in the world. Because not only are there the unionists, the DUP in particular, very, very strongly against European Union, but actually, unlike the Scottish nationalists, Sinn Féin do have some … I’m not being nice about Sinn Féin, by the way … But Sinn Féin do have som sincerity in that they believe that the Ireland of Ireland should be independent. So I’m pretty confident come the referendum, that Northern Ireland will be strongly in the no camp. Our problem in winning this referendum, is going to be London and Greater London, and the number of people that work for the big banks that we’ve discussed in this room today. Those that are doing very nicely out of the status quo, will be our problem.

Right here in the middle.

How are we doing on time?

We’re good. Now, this needs to be … We’ve got a few more questions.

I’ll wrap it through.

But in order to keep our time, we’ve got just a few minutes left. So let’s try to make these questions tight, and get two more, then we’ll call the time.

Yes, I’m Russell King. Bobby Jindal recently made a public statement about the so-called no-go zones in British cities and European cities. The British Prime Minister and Mayor of London disagreed with them.

To the best of my understanding, it’s in Muslim areas maybe, where they might have Sharia law. You don’t have the entire national law there. There are hate speech laws I believe, in Britain and Sweden that sort of means you cannot make even an innocuous statement about some immigrant groups. Can you discuss the hate speech laws and the no-go zones, whether or not they exist or not?

Yeah, it’s very easy. I just send you about 20 front pages from The Times newspaper over the last two years, condemning me for some sort of form of appalling bigotry. I mean, you’re right. We can’t tell the truth anymore. With the Romanian migration that we’ve seen into Britain, a lot of it organized and run by organized criminal gangs. So we now have a situation where over 90% of ATM crime in London, is committed by Romanian gangs. And yet if I say that, I’m accused of being racist. It really is quite difficult.

Does Britain have no-go zones? I suspect that France has a much bigger problem with this than Britain. I think there were quite large parts of the urban areas in big French cities, that are really seriously problematic. I don’t think Britain has no-go zones as such. But have we pursued a policy of turning a blind eye, because it’s easier to do so? Well let me just give you one very quick, I promise, example.

In a medium sized northern town called Rotherham, population about probably 350,000 people. We have just uncovered in the last few months, the grooming and sexual abuse of 1,400 girls. 1,400 girls in a town of that size, have been serially sexually abused and raped. And over 95% of the perpetrators have come from one specific religious and ethnic group. And yet, because they were seen to be Pakistani Muslim men, clearly what has happened, is the police and the local authorities thought it better to allow this kind of thing to continue rather than to confront it and to be thought to be racist. It really goes back if you like, to what I was trying to say earlier. We have to start having more self confidence in who we are and what our values are, and asserting them.

Right here in the front row, and then the young man in the green shirt will be your last question.

Thank you.

Hi, Mr. Farage. Thanks very much for coming. I’m Michael Shaw. I’m from Northern Ireland.

I guessed that.

Yeah.

There’s a lot of it about, isn’t there?

I can’t wait to join a compendium to leave the European Union.

Yay, give a round of applause.

I was absolutely disgusted to see the establishment rounding you and collude to ensure that you didn’t get into Parliament. Is it possible that we’re just going to see more collusion between the established parties and their corporate buddies to ensure there’s not a fair fight in the referendum?

This is, this is the biggest political decision that we faced for many, many decades. This is it. This is the big one. And I talked earlier about people who work for the big guy. You are going to see the most massive coming together of the vested interests whose lives work as part of this corporatist project.

Whether they’re big landowners who now can bring in labor from Lithuania at a very, very low cost, whether it’s the big banks who benefited from it … We are going to see a coming together. Probably the levels of nastiness and unpleasantness that I’ve come up against so far, will be seen as nothing yet compared to what’s going to come over the next 12 or 18 months, depending exactly when the date is.

So, we’ve got the modern day battle of Britain on our hands, and it will be nice … I know you’re from Northern Ireland, and I look forward to seeing you on the campaign trail I hope. But it will be nice if as a result of this visit of a group of us from the European Parliament … It would be nice if we started to hear one or two American voices actually speaking up and saying that an independent Britain would be good for America in the world to counteract Obama and the State Department. That might just help us win this referendum.

Okay. Young man in the green shirt, he’ll be our final question.

Okay.

And then you can make any wrap up comments.

Hello, Mr. Farage. My name is Alex, and I have to questions that are semi related. Being the leader of an insurgent political force that more relates to the right wing, how do you view the current state of the modern Republican Party, and the divide between the more establishment/anti-establishment groups?

And also, I had the pleasure of seeing you speak at CPAC this year. Do you know if you’ll be invited next year, or if you’ll be doing any more speaking events in the states?

Generally in life I find, that when I’ve been invited somewhere once, I never get invited back. So I say, we’ll just have to see on that one.

The reason, the reason that UKIP in the end, won the European elections and managed to hold up very respectably in the general election despite this big surge and this big fear of that ghastly woman from north of Hadrian’s Wall, whose party is both Nationalist and Socialist … I couldn’t resist it. The reason is … Look, I was before getting involved in politics, I was a member of the Conservative Party. Why was I a member of the Conservative Party? I thought Mrs. Thatcher was a very necessary thing when she came and brought in the reforms that modernized Britain, painful though some of them were. You know? So I would have considered myself traditionally, to be on the center right of British politics.

What I’ve learnt through UKIP, is there are some issues that are so fundamentally important, that the old labels of left and right become completely irrelevant. And by talking about sensible immigration controls, and the shape of our communities, and the wage levels of those in skilled, semi-skilled and unskilled jobs … What we’ve done is to reach out across the political spectrum, and in fact in many ways, to bridge the class divide that exists in British politics. I’m very proud of the fact that we’ve done that.

I can’t really, and I shouldn’t really comment much on the Republican Party, but my observation would be that the Republican Party doesn’t seem to pick on those issues these days, but cross that bridge in that same way. Ronnie Reagan, when he was … He was a pretty remarkable fellow, it seemed to me. What Ronnie Reagan did, was to go for big issues that reached across the left/right divide, and you had the phenomenon of the Reagan Democrats. No Conservative Party in the western world can ever win a majority if they haven’t got significant blue collar support, and that is what I think the Republican Party needs to do, and I think it failed to do that at the last election in quite a big way.

We’ve run overtime.

Hi, Mr. Farage. My name is Jamie Kirchick. I’m a fellow with the Foreign Policy Initiative, here in Washington. I have two somewhat related questions.

You mentioned two crises, but one that seems to missing is Ukraine. It seems to be a pretty big crisis, probably maybe even I would in my opinion, more importantly mentioned. I’m curious to what your view on that is. British policy should be EU policy and whatnot.

Somewhat related, I agree with you on the importance of the special relationship with Great Britain. And one of the reasons I’m worried about Brexit, is without Britain and the EU, we will lose a voice for free markets, free trade, Atlanticism, stronger defence. The EU’s not going away, and I think it’s better that we have Britain in it. This is from an American perspective, and perhaps that’s selfish, but I think it’s better that we have Britain in it, than without. So how would you allay those concerns? Thank you.

Okay. Point number one. I think what happened in the Ukraine was absolutely appalling. Moronic, actually. What happened was a democratically elected leader of the Ukraine was brought down by a street staged coup d’état, by people waving European Union flags.

I think the foreign policy that we pursued though NATO, which does need serious reform as an organization as well, but the model’s okay. The foreign policy that we pursued, is we’ve said we want the Ukraine to join NATO. Politically, the message that the European Union’s been pushing, and indeed the biggest cheerleader of all for this, has been David Cameron, is we want the Ukraine to join our political union.

Well, all of those frankly, are very provocative acts on Russia and Putin. Whatever we think of them … And I think the Ukraine crisis is something that we have provoked. All right? Now when I make that argument, it doesn’t mean that Putin’s my best mate or that I want him to be, and I can see why people living in the Baltic states are genuinely concerned about Putin. But can I say this? This will probably shock you. But, we’re all told that Putin’s a baddie, and that Assad’s a baddie. All right? These are the really bad guys in the world.

Let me put this point to you, that actually, when it comes to the biggest threat that we face, which is violent extreme Islamism, on that great battle, which may well over the next couple of decades, be the next big terror that we actually have to confront on those issues, both of those men are on our side. So I do think when it comes to some of this big foreign policy stuff, we need to start thinking. Not about what’s good, or the right thing to do for the next six months, but where we should be positioning ourselves for the next decade and more.

Second point. Britain inside the European Union has lots of influence, and therefore that’s good for America, because we will convince the EU to be free trade, Atlanticists. I’m sorry, we’ve been there now for 35 years, and we haven’t succeeded. One of the most recent statistics over the course of the last five years, on 65 occasions of which the British government at the final meeting of the counsel … When the final rubber stamp is going on legislation … For the last 65 occasions where the British representative said, “Excuse me, we’re not very happy with this. Can we have a rethink?” I think we’ve got 90% record now, of losing. So when we’ve really raised an issue, we’ve lost 90% of the time. We are not going. Britain has about an eight percent share of the vote and the say within the EU.

The concept of national vetoes is one that’s been watered down and virtually eradicated. If anybody in Washington thinks that somehow Britain is going to have a reforming influence on the European Union, just look at the way they’ve talked to and treated Greece over the course of the last few days, and you’ll realize these people are obsessed with their project in exactly the same way that the Soviets were obsessed with their Communist project. The Soviets used to convince themselves that the reason Communism wasn’t working, is there wasn’t enough of it, and if you have more Communism, it might succeed. And that’s exactly the same with the European Union.

Okay, can we bring a mic down here to the front row?

He asked two questions, that was cheating.

Pardon me. Hi, Carl Golovan. I’ve heard it said that you believe gold is actually money, and not credit borrowed into existence at usury, which is the foundation of most central banking.

I just wanted to comment that America was founded as a constitutional republic, based in part on the writings of Roger Sherman, who put in our Constitution … No state shall make anything but gold and silver coin, a tender in payment of debt. He wrote in caveat against injustice in 1752, subtitled on the evils of a fluctuating medium of exchange … How if there are multiple systems of paper money, that they can be differentially inflated in order to steal wealth, one from the other. It seems to really be what’s happening between Germany and Greece. All of that pointing towards what the Bretton Woods agreements were supposed to be, where gold was the anchor of honesty in international trade.

What do you think about Iceland as a geopolitical focal point for a new Bretton Woods, where each nation could bring some gold and hold each other accountable to not over inflating our currencies and dumping them into each other’s economies?

I get the point about the way governments are able to inflate currencies. And I certainly get the point about the way that governments, even my government back in Britain, through quantitative easing and all sorts of extraordinary tricks, have behaved over the last few years.

The simplistic argument that we should return to the gold standard, is not one I buy. The trouble with going to the gold standard, is a fixed system of currency pegs based on gold. If you think about it, is actually rather like a slightly bigger version, an even more rigid version, of being in the Euro. It doesn’t give countries that are having good times or bad times, the ability for their currency to fluctuate. I’m not sold on the idea of returning to the gold standard, though I am sold on the idea that as electorates, we’re going to have to start making our governments rather more accountable for the sheer level of debt they’re piling up. But it’s one of the very difficult things to discuss.

One of the narratives that we got from Cameron and from Osborne the Chancellor in the general election, is vote Conservative, because we have been prudent. We’ve been the prudent government. And actually, in the space of five years, they’ve doubled our national debt. They increased our debt level in five years, more than the Labour Party managed to do in 13 years. It’s quite some achievement really, when you think about it, isn’t it? So yes, I do want governments to be more responsible, but I don’t buy a return to the gold standard.

Okay, let’s go back over here. I see lots of hands. The gentleman in the back row, and then we’ll do you next.

Hi Nigel. As a British Conservative, what makes it tough to support what you’re saying, or to believe in what you are trying to do?

You’re very vague about if Britain leaves the European Union, what it’s going to do next. So trade agreements and being more friendly with the United States, basically isn’t enough. Britain is an intellectually much bigger country than that, and needs to form alliances around the world on trade, military, government affairs. What are the principles that we should use to do that?

Is it Parliamentary democracy? Is it just English speaking? Is it military? We need to really investigate a lot more before making this jump. Can you say what to do next?

Okay, well William Dartmouth is going to speak very specifically on trade, and how potentially our trade situation is better not being tied in with this old-fashioned concept of a Customs Union.

What was interesting, was to hear you say about what a big country we are. Which is very interesting, because the Deputy Prime Minister, Nick Clegg … Even the Prime Minister are on record as saying they don’t think Britain is big enough and good enough, and strong enough to negotiate our own trade deals on the world stage.

When I mentioned Iceland earlier, if a country’s a third of a million, can negotiate a trade deal with China, I’m damn certain we can. I look at Switzerland, who’ve got more genuine FTAs around the world, than we’ve got as EU members.

You’re right about one thing. One thing that the No Campaign has to do in the run up to this referendum, is to come up with some quite definitive answers on these things. My current position is quite simple. If the Swiss can get a deal that suits them, and the Norwegians can get a deal that suits them, and if Mexico can have exactly the same terms of trade with Europe that we’ve got at the moment but without being members and without paying one percent of our GDP as a membership fee, I’m sure that we as now the Euro Zone’s biggest export market in the world, can get our own bespoke deal with the EU.

Do you know something? If you do business with countries that speak the same language as you, and if you do business with countries that have Common Law and countries that have recognizable contract law, you actually find there are huge trade advantages to wiping away tariffs and barriers with those countries. And I would see the first area for the UK to prosper with new FDAs, would indeed yes, be with the English speaking parts of the world. It’s a no brainer. That’s a very good, quick easy place to start.

Okay. Yes, right here, and then we’ll come back over to this side.

Mr. Farage, my name is Bob Patterson. I write for the Philadelphia Inquirer, just three hours north of here. Could you share your perspective? I know you don’t live in America, but do you sense that America faces the exact same threats to sovereignty, independence, autonomy, as Britain?

I guess what I’m particularly asking you … This recent Obama trade deal that went through was all pushed by Goldman Sachs, all the big banks. All the same people that are pushing the European Zone, and these deals aren’t really about free trade, they’re more about maybe integration on an economic level. So could you care to share your perspective … If the United States faces the same kind of dangers that England faces?

Then my last question, real quick. Would you be considered the Donald Trump of England?

I’m pretty sure that if the EU was to try to expand itself across the Atlantic, Obama would be the first to sign America up to it. Obama loves this concept of big supernational organizations, whether it’s international courts, whether it’s the EU, whether it’s the United Nations.

We’ve got this breed of people, and they all work hand in glove, and you’re quite right. It’s the unholy trinity, isn’t it? Between big government, big banks, and big corporate businesses. What is happening with these new so-called trade deals and everything else … What is happening, is we’re seeing a victory of corporatism over capitalism. And it is the job for those with genuine conservative voices, to start making the arguments for capitalism, for popular free market capitalism. Which is actually being crushed by big business and big government corporatism, who are setting up a framework and a rule book that makes the costs of market entry to any potential competitors too damned difficult, and hands the world over to a few big companies. So yes, there are great similarities.

I also feel very strongly, that immigration is increasingly becoming a big argument in America. And much as we were told, what terrible people we were to even dare to raise the issue. We’ve now made it a mainstream debate. And I suspect in America, this immigration debate about who is coming, in what numbers, and what quantity they are, that will also become a big debate.

I just have to say, slightly selfishly, back to you from my side of the pond … It would be nice if America had a President who actually liked my country, because the current one doesn’t appear to. Now in terms of Donald Trump, I will avoid all comparisons with Donald Trump. But I like to think of myself as the updated Henry VIII. That’s about where I fit in.

Okay, let’s come right here to the second row.

Hello, Mr. Farage. My name is Jordan Harms. I’m a student at Georgetown University. Props to the man who suggested you’re Donald Trump, because if I was British, I definitely would vote for you.

My question is two pronged, and they’re both similar in theme. One primary concern, you touched on it briefly about the Islamic State. We call it ISIS or ISIL, whichever suits us. One primary concern that I think the European Union faces, is the problem of foreign fighters.

I’m sure you know, especially about these British citizens who regularly travel to join ISIS. Not necessarily because they have any love for Sharia law, but simply because they’re disgusted by what they see in their own country and in their own societies. Especially now, with the recent deal of Iran and in the nuclear scheme of things.

What is the best strategy that the European Union or at least in terms of Britain, can do to assuage this problem of ISIS that is a problem of foreign fighters?

Okay. All right. On the Donald Trump point, seriously. I do think some of the things he’s picked up on in the last few weeks are very similar to the kind of themes that we picked up on in British politics. The feeling that there is a centralized bureaucracy in Washington, maybe not connecting with some of the concerns of ordinary people.

Look, we’ve been very, very good over the last decade and more, about worrying what’s happening in the Middle East and North Africa, and Afghanistan. We’ve been very busy intervening in all these places, and we’ve been almost negligent in the growth of Jihadiism within our own communities.

What I said last year to the usual hells of outrage … What I said last year, that we now have a fifth column living inside our own countries. They carry our passports, they speak our language, and they hate us. They want to kill us. They want to overthrow our culture, our Constitution, our whole way of life.

My own view is we should worry a bit more about what’s happening within our countries, than what is happening across the rest of the world. And I think that is going to be the politics of the future. I think we’ve intervened too much militarily around the world, without always thinking about what this may mean for the longer term. We must focus on our own countries. Part of that it seems to me, needs to be we have got to be more assertive in saying who we are as a nation. What our values are. What those that built your great country and built mine, what they represented.

In the case of my country, we actually have a Christian Constitution. We have a Church of England. It is the established State Church. Yet our leaders in recent years, whether they’re political or even some of our bishops, appear to be almost ashamed to stand up and defend our culture and who we are. So we need to be more muscular about this.

The man that I admire hugely from the Conservative Movement over the course of the last 30, 40 years, is the Australian, John Howard. John Howard, he won four elections. And Howard who said … His big message to immigrants coming to Australia is if you’ve got a trade or skill to bring, and you can make this about a country, you’re welcome. And we couldn’t care less whether you’re black or white, or yellow, or whatever you are, we couldn’t care less what your religion is. We’re not interested. But if you come here, you speak our language, you integrate with our society, you become part of our Australian dream … If you don’t want to do those things, don’t bother coming in the first place. And isn’t that what we need to do, to be a bit more assertive?

Just quickly, on the issue of foreign fighters. David Cameron’s big push now, is that when they find out that someone wants to leave the country and go and fight in Syria, for ISIS or ISIL or whatever we call it, that we now stop them leaving the country. I’d pay their ticket. And then take away their passport, and make sure they never ever come back.

Okay, the back corner there, and then down here to the front row.

Hi, Stephan Grover with Euro News. What is your view on the Iran deal? You haven’t really touched upon this.

I think that he’s probably going too far, too fast. Is the idea that you talk to people a good idea? Of course it is, whoever they are. You should always be talking to people.

Is the removal of sanctions a good thing? Well, if it will fill your car up with gas over the next five years, it might be quite a good thing. Have we gone too far in terms of the nuclear provisions? Well actually, unless I’m mistaken and unless something fundamental has changed, don’t they still want to blow Israel off the face of the Earth? That’s at least what I think.

So unless there’s been some massive shift in the Iranian stance on the existence of Israel as a State … Unless that’s happened that I haven’t noticed, then I think Obama has gone too far.

Okay, right here.

Nigel Farage launches UK Brexit political party

When I began to realize back in November, December, that extension was almost certain to come, that there would be more European elections, I thought, I know what I’m going to do, I’m going to set up a party. I’m going to call it the Brexit Party, but given that it’s the most Googled word in the English language, I wonder whether the electoral commission would allow me to use the name? Well, they have. You are here today at the birth, at the launch of a new force in British politics. Welcome to the Brexit Party.

All over the world people look on with incredulity because they still think that we’re a great country and the funny thing is that we, the people still think we’re a great country, but our leaders are happy to continue down the path of managed decline. I genuinely believe right now this nation, we are lions led by donkeys.

I don’t think what’s happened is our two-party system simply can’t cope with Brexit, I think our two-party system has been exposed, frankly, as being unfit for purpose. I think we have a parliament that is now completely out of touch with our country. I think politics is broken.

Weak Leaders

Not only are our leaders weak, not only have they willfully betrayed this result, but they’re also pretty much incompetent. They’re not actually very good at what they do. They’re not very good at anything. Too many of them, too many of them have been down the path of going straight from Oxford to become a researcher, to become a member of parliament in their late twenties, they’ve got no experience of the real world, they are classic career politicians.

I did say that if I ever had to come back into the political fray next time, it’d be no more Mr. Nice Guy and I mean it. I mean it. I mean it. Yes, I’m angry about what’s happened. I know lots of people out there are angry, but this is not, as I say, a negative emotion, this is a positive emotion. We’re going to use these elections to change things. I said many years ago, that I wanted to cause an earthquake in British politics. Well, now what I’m fighting for, and with your support, what we will attempt to achieve is a democratic revolution in British politics because that is what we need.

I remember in the run up to the referendum when it was 4:1 against Leave winning and I went into a bookmakers in London and put down a bet, how everybody thought it was so terribly funny. Well, I did manage to collect my winnings. I have this morning and I have this morning put £1,000 pounds on the Brexit Party to top the poll in the European election at the odds of 3:1.

Standing for us in England, Scotland and Wales on May 23rd and can I please welcome to the stage mr Nigel Farage

Brexit Nigel Farage I will endeavour to start a political revolution

.. for debate with guests the likes of my next one, Nigel Farage, former Ukip leader and current independent MEP and now the brand new leader of the new Brexit Party. He joins me. Good morning to you Nigel.

Good morning Julia.

Good morning. The Brexit Party exists and you are formally its leader.

Yes, I signed the forms yesterday, so yep, I’m the leader of the Brexit Party.

We’ve set it up because well firstly UKIP has taken rather a change of direction, so sadly I had to leave after a long time. But really I’ve set it up because I felt a few months ago that it was likely that we just were not gonna get any meaningful form of Brexit, that an extension to the Article 50 date was the most likely outcome.

And if that’s the case, which I really do believe it is, then we have to contest European elections and those elections will be the first opportunity that the British public have to express their opinion on the way that Parliament and indeed our government has handled Brexit.

Well, you are going to be attending a rally outside Parliament today, the Leave Means Leave rally. It’s the end of the march down from Sunderland. Well, it started with a few dozen up to a couple of a hundred people marching down to protest for a genuine Brexit departure. How are you feeling today though about the fact that we were supposed to be leaving, supposed to be big celebrations, independence day everyone was calling it?

Almost three years ago now, there was so much hope, so much expectation this would be delivered. Did it ever occur to you when you were campaigning for us to leave back in 2016 that if we won, that that would be stopped, that would be thwarted by the establishment, the politicians, the MPs in the Houses of Parliament?

Well, I thought there’d be some battles obviously, and I didn’t necessarily think we’d get everything we wanted in one fell swoop. But I have to say, that the day two years ago, exactly two years ago today, when 498 MPs voted for Article 50, which said we leave on this date with or without a deal, I must confess you thought then we’d done it. I thought we’d won.

And so this has become a day of betrayal, a day of shame, and I think actually one of the saddest chapters in the long history of our nation. It is an outrage that the democratic will of the people has, as you say, been thwarted by our political class, and I’m very, very angry about it.

But the one thing that encourages me is the British public, far from changing their minds, actually there are more people now who think we should leave than ever before, and even though it’s not gonna happen today, I’ll make this one promise to your listeners, it will happen. The genie is out of the bottle, we are going to leave, but I’m afraid to say we’ve got some more battles to fight first.

Well, we’re told again and again by politicians, an awful lot of them remain, but some of them Brexit as well saying, “Look, people have had enough. They just want this over and done with”.

Do you think that there is actually any evidence that people are saying, or there’s any evidence that Brexit voters are gonna say, “Yeah well shrug, well we had a good go, never mind”?

No, in fact they’re hardening and if you look at the recent spate of opinion polls, what it shows now is that leaving with no deal is the most popular option by far, it enjoys at least a 15 point lead over extension of any form.

So what is happening is Brexiters are uniting around the position we’re not interested in deals of any kind, we’ve had enough of being talked down to by Mr. Tusk and Mr. Juncker and Mr. Barnier, we just want to leave. And I think people that have come to that conclusion are not gonna change their minds.

We’ve got into a situation, the Prime Minister went with her begging bowl last week trying to get the EU to agree to an extension, so she had more time to get her deal through. If by 11PM tonight she doesn’t get her withdrawal agreement, which no one expects she will, she’ll have to go back before the 12th of April and ask for another extension because if we don’t get that deal through today, 22nd of May falls as the date for us departing.

What do you think? You’ve spent a lot of time in Brussels and we talk to a lot of Brussels correspondents and people who spend time there, but what do you think the European Union wants to happen next? Would they rather they just got shot of us and we went for a no deal? Do you think they’re willing to make changes to the withdrawal agreement, to do a deal that’s perhaps more beneficial to us? Or do you think they are going to hold firm?

No, and let’s please not call it the withdrawal agreement, let’s give it its proper name, the treaty, okay? Monsieur Barnier walks around the building with the bound copy of the treaty, as he calls it, under his arm and they are not going to change that, not one little bit. There is a possibility, maybe not that big a one, but there is a possibility that some European leaders say, “Do you know what? We’re bored with this. The UK is stopping us getting on with our work,” so there is a chance that they veto any extension.

There’s also a chance, I suppose, that Mrs. May in the end says, “Alright, let’s just leave on the 12th of April with no deal”. But in reality, they will probably offer us an extension. The talk this week was that it would be an unlimited extension. Can you imagine the humiliation of Theresa May signing up to an unlimited extension? So I think whichever way you cut this, an extension of one or two years plus is the most likely outcome.

And you seem to be almost relishing the idea of that. You’d rather we were leaving today, but if we’re not leaving today with either a no deal or a deal that you can live with, do you think an unlimited extension of one year, two years, who knows how many years, is actually working in the favor of the leave voters?

Yes, I do. I think that we’re gotta get a new prime minister this year, whether she wins or loses today, that is certain. And I think a new prime minister with this treaty would be in a very bad place. It would lead to years of acrimony. It gives the other side the whip hand.

So I think a new prime minister at some point this year with a clean sheet of paper and a chance to press the reset button and say, “We’re not accepting this treaty. We actually want to get back to where we should be, either we have a free trade deal or we leave,” I think that actually is the best hope that leavers have got now.

And in terms of the European elections, if there’s an extension past the 22nd of May, as it looks very likely there will be, you’re going to be standing in those European election. As you say, you’ve just signed on the dotted line in terms of the Brexit Party.

The Brexit Party will be standing. It was the 2014 European elections where you actually, a leading Ukipper at the time, won those elections. Again, a lot of people forget that that was the real reason why we ended up getting that referendum, because the threat from Ukip to Tory MPs was so great. What do you predict will happen this time round?

All I can say is this, I think that our Parliament, our political classes, our government, our two party system have shown themselves to be incapable of delivering the will of the people. I think British politics needs a revolution.

I can’t promise that I’ll deliver it, but I can promise that if I’m leading the Brexit Party on May the 23rd, I will endeavor to begin a political revolution, a break up of our two party system, and to try and get ultimately a House of Commons that reflects the will of the people of this country. As I say, I have no guarantee of success, but I tell you what, I’ll try my damnedest.

Now just the march for Brexit arrives in Parliament Square today. There are a number of different demonstrations, we think up to 11 different organizations, [inaudible 00:07:30] you have to apply to the police for permission. We know that one of those demonstrations is by your former party, led by Gerard Batten, Ukip, along with the likes of Tommy Robinson in Whitehall. You’re with Leave Means Leave and that’s gonna be in Parliament Square.

There are lots of worries that there could be trouble. Now we’ve seen horrible events that are going on in the streets of Paris and I like to think we’re not French, we do things by the ballot box. But is there a worry, a concern that actually the anger that people are feeling about their vote being ignored from 2016 could actually spill into violence on our streets?

Well, everything I’ve done with Leave Means Leave and with the Brexit Party as well, everything I have done, Julia, is to make sure that people actually have a peaceful means and a democratic means through which they can express that anger.

And I would urge all people on the leave side, however angry they are to deal with this in the appropriate way. Whether we get aggravation and trouble from the other side, well, we’ll just have to see. But I hope not.

Okay, just finally there are a lot of people waking up this morning just feeling a little bit down, feeling a little bit blue, feeling very, very different from how they would have felt that Friday, that beautiful Friday morning, the 24th June 2016, when I have to say I was crying, genuinely tears of joy that we had actually done it, that we had seen our country returning to be an independent sovereign state.

Many people feeling today that that may not happen, feeling that they have been ignored. What do you say to those people listening right now?

Well, I’d say to them don’t worry, I haven’t gone away, many of us haven’t gone away, and if you think back through history, all the great changes in history tend to come after a series of battles and struggles.

We thought we’d won, but we may have to go and fight this all over again, and we will win in the end. We will prevail, of that I have absolutely no doubt at all.

BREXIT Nigel Farage attacks deluded Donald Tusk but EU Council President HITS BACK to Brextremist

I would have thought as a former Belgian prime minister you would know it was Field Marshall Haig in 1914 who saved the Belgian town of Ypres from German domination, who then went on in 1918 to lead Britain in its greatest ever military feat, defeating imperial Germany on the Western Front. Far from mocking Haig, as a Belgian, he should be a great hero to you. But never the mind, maybe that sums up your anti Britishness.

Sticking with Belgium, I thought what happened at the summit last week was a national humiliation. An impasse, because we have in Mrs May a prime minister who hasn’t got the courage, who hasn’t got the vision to carry out her many repeated promises, namely to take us out of the European Union this Friday, March the 29th. It is not happening. And we’re witnessing a slow motion betrayal, perhaps the greatest betrayal of any democratic vote in the history of our nation. And the reason, of course, is this withdrawal treaty.

And I’ll go back to the First World War. We won the war, but we had the treaty of Versailles. And this treaty is the modern day equivalent. We have a reparations bill of £39 billion we have to pay, for nothing in return. We have annexation of a part of our national territory in the shape of Northern Ireland. This treaty is a bad piece, it is unacceptable, it is not Brexit, and it will not pass.

Now, I know that you’re all getting terribly excited about what the House of Commons may do over the course of the next week, and we know what they’ll do, they’ll come back with some form of agreement around a customs union and the continued free movement of people. But even if they do that, the one thing that’s inevitable is that we’re headed for an Article 50 extension. And I think you should ask yourselves do you really want that? Do you really want Brexit to utterly dominate the next couple of years of your business to the exclusion of your many other ambitions? Do you really want the United Kingdom to contest the European elections, to send back a very large number of leave MEP’s just at a time when you’re fighting populism as you see it across the continent?

Do you really want me back in this place? Well, there we are. And all for what? Because Brexit is going to happen anyway. Mr. Tusk if you think the British people have changed their minds on Brexit, you sir are deluded, because actually what we now see are opinion leads of 15, and in some cases nearly 20% in favor of leaving. If we had another referendum, leave would win it by a bigger margin. So, why put yourselves through years of agony? I pay great tribute to Mr. Juncker, to Mr. Barnier, to the European Commission. You have prepared your no deal scenario. It is highly professional, it shows that actually leaving with no deal is not going to cause huge disruption. It even suggests that with no deal there’s no need for a visible border in Ireland.

So, I would say to you, to all of you, and national leaders, reject the British extension beyond the 12th of April. Get Britain out, and then we can just get on with the rest of our lives.

To Mr. Farage. Mr. Farage you have presented a passionate argument against the second referendum. But the truth is, that the second referendum took place in 2016, because the first one took place in 1975. And then a vast majority of the British public decided that the place of the UK was in the European community. It was you who thought three years ago that it was possible to organize a referendum in order to invalidate the previous one. Then please be consistent also today. Thank you.

Thank you very much Mr. President.

BREXIT Farage takes savage swipe after EU’s Verhofstadt compares him to COWARDLY character

First of all, I want to say to Mr. [inaudible 00:00:02] that that is absolutely wrong what he is saying, that there is a sense of humiliation or punishment from the side of the European Union towards Britain. We have far too much respect for a great nation as Britain to do that.

Do you know what the problem is? The problem of humiliation and punishment is because of the mess in the Tory party. There is the humiliation of the British people. Sitting in your group. They are not even there. They are not even there. The only one who is there is Mr. Farage. That’s a surprise to me because I thought that he was marching somewhere in Britain and he has here. A two hundred miles march. How many miles you have done? Two miles you think? Something like that? Yeah. Think so.

You remind me more and more … I don’t know if you know him. Field Marshal Haig in Blackadder. You know Field Marshal Haig in Blackadder? He was so setting in the first World War in his office in London, and you’re sitting here in Strasburg where your own people are marching through the rain and in the cold. That is the way you’re taking your responsibility. Okay.

But I want to recall the words of Winston Churchill who said, if I may quote him, “Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.” I think that quote of Winston Churchill was absolutely applicable today to British politics in the House of Commons and to Prime Minister May because this afternoon their colleagues in the House of Commons, if the speaker allows it, because that’s their system. There will no less than 16 options, 16 options on the table for a Brexit. So there is certainly no loss of enthusiasm as in the quote of Winston Churchill. But more seriously after all the negatives votings of the last weeks in the House of Commons, Mr Dusk against a deal, against a no deal, against the second referendum and so on.

I think there is maybe light at the end of the tunnel now because with the approval of the Letwin Amendment that will be for the first time, after two years of negotiation, maybe a solution based on a cross party cooperation between Labor and the Conservatives. Because I believe that such an existential issue as the Brexit can only be decided on a cross party agreement in a Parliament as we do here in this European Parliament.

I hope that the way forward, giving them time until the 11th of April, we’ll see a majority in the House of Commons for one of these options between Remainers reasonable Brexit deals because it’s between them that they have to find a way forward. In any way, in my personal opinion, I’m not counting on the hard Brexiteers because for the hard Brexiteers, it’s not the interest of the country who is important, but the power struggle inside of the Conservative Party as we have seen the last days.

I repeat in that respect, and I think that I can say that Mr. Chairman, Mr. President, in the name of the whole European Parliament that we are open to have this agreement with Britain, that we are open to change the political declaration in two senses.

First of all in the way that we can make it more binding for both parties that only a declaration. And secondly that we can put inside this political declaration a far more intense relationship between the EU and the UK then the relationship that is foreseen in the political declaration at this moment. And I think this deep relationship will also, to respond to your last intervention, Mr Dusk, will be in any way also the seat for the future. Because I’m pretty sure that not now, I’m not so optimistic as you. I’m an optimist, but not so optimistic as you, I’m personally of the opinion that not now, but within a few generations there will be the return of Britain inside the family of European nations. That’s the place of Britain to be inside the European Union, not outside the European Union, but that will not be succeeded now. That will be succeeded later on and the seat is … Let’s be honest, the march of 1 million people in London, the petition of 6 million people a few days ago.

Finally my last point on the rights of the citizens. I think Mr. [Barnier] and Mr. [Yeunker 00:05:15], I know there have be a unilateral commitment by Britain to respect these citizens as described in the withdrawal agreement. There is from you also to Mr. Barclay a unilateral commitment to do exactly the same for the UK citizens living on the continent. Well, I think it’s time now to look into the possibilities together with Mr. Barclay and you in both houses to see how we can formalize that the fastest as possible so that in any case, what’s happened, even when the most stupid thing happens for an example of a no deal, at least these citizens are not the victims of all these games that we have seen the last two years. Thank you.

[foreign language 00:05:56] Farage.

I would’ve thought as a former Belgium Prime Minister, you would know that it was Field Marshal Haig in 1914 who saved the Belgian town of [Iep00:06:08] from German domination who then went on in 1918 to lead Britain in its greatest ever military feat, defeating imperial Germany on the western front. Far from mocking Haig, as a Belgium, he should be a great hero to you, but never mind. Maybe that sums up your anti-Britishness.

Sticking with Belgium, I thought what happened at the summit last week was a national humiliation, an impasse because we have in Mrs. May, a Prime Minister who hasn’t got the courage, who hasn’t got the vision to carry out her many repeated promises, namely to take us out of the European Union this Friday, March the 29th. It is not happening, and we’re witnessing a slow motion betrayal, perhaps the greatest betrayal of any democratic vote in the history of our nation.

And the reason of course is this withdrawal treaty, and I’ll go back to the first World War. We won the war, but we have the Treaty of Versailles and this treaty is the modern day equivalent.

We have a reparations bill of 39 billion pounds we have to pay for nothing in return. We have the annexation of a part of our national territory in the shape of Northern Ireland. This treaty is a bad piece, it is unacceptable, it is not Brexit and it will not pass.

Now I know that you’re all getting terribly excited about what the House of Commons may do over the course of the next week, and we know what they’ll do. They’ll come back with some form of agreement around a customs union and the continued free movement of people. But even if they do that, the one thing that’s inevitable is that we’re headed for an article 50 extension. And I think you should ask yourselves, do you really want that? Do you really want Brexit to utterly dominate the next couple of years of your business to the exclusion of your many other ambitions? Do you really want the United Kingdom to contest the European elections to send back a very large number of leave MEPs is just at a time when you’re fighting populism as you see it across the continent. Do you really want me back in this place?

Well there we are, and all for what? Because Brexit is going to happen anyway. Mr Tusk, if you think the British people have changed their minds on Brexit, you Sir, are deluded because actually what we now see are opinion poll leads of 15 and in some cases nearly 20% in favor of leaving. If we had another referendum leave would win it by a bigger margin. So why put yourselves through years of agony?

I pay great tribute to Mr [Yeunker] to Mr Barnea, to the European Commission. You have prepared your no deal scenario. It is highly professional. It shows that actually leaving with no deal is not going to cause huge disruption. It even suggest that with no deal, there’s no need for a visible border in Ireland. So I would say to you, to all of you national leaders, reject the British extension beyond the 12th of April. Get Britain out. And then we could all just get on with the rest of our lives.

Nigel Farage on Absolute Radio Full Interview

Speaker 1:
it’s Absolute Radio and our guest tonight, Nigel Farage. Hello.

Nigel Farage:
Good evening.

Speaker 1:
Not a hair out of place.

Nigel Farage:
No. Sadly they’ve all gone gray but they’re all still there.

Speaker 1:
You know, there was an errant hair during the debates last night people were tweeting about.

Nigel Farage:
Oh really?

Speaker 1:
Yeah. You strike me as somebody who, when you were going off to school in the morning, maybe your mum needed to dab a bit of jam off you face and make sure you’re tucked in.

Nigel Farage:
Well, wipe the toothpaste off the tie, normally.

Speaker 1:
I’m going to play a piece of music to introduce this section of the interview. Here it is.

Chumbawamba:
He drinks the whiskey drink. He drinks the vodka drink. He drinks the lager drink. He drinks the cider drink. He sings the songs …

Speaker 1:
Now, I’m guessing that you’re not particularly familiar with the works of Chumbawamba.

Nigel Farage:
I … do you know, once, there was a UKIP party conference, and as I walked onto the stage, they played a piece of Chumbawamba, and the band objected violently to it.

Speaker 1:
Oh no, they’re going to object to that, as well.

Nigel Farage:
Oh, well, there we are.

Speaker 1:
You know, I was just thinking of the lager drink, whiskey drink, because this is an unusual thing to not see you with a pint in the hand.

Nigel Farage:
Well, this is just ridiculous. I go up … do you know what? I get up fairly early in the morning, 5:00 normally, 5:30. I work bloody hard until about-

Speaker 1:
You deserve it.

Nigel Farage:
Until about 1:00, and I reckon I deserve a sherbet.

Speaker 1:
But you’re also electioneering at the moment. You’re campaigning. You’ve got to keep healthy. We’ve got you a drink, but we’ve got no alcohol for Nigel.

Nigel Farage:
Oh dear, how vague.

Speaker 1:
Garrett, can you bring me some drinks over? I think you’re going to like this. This is what they’re drinking these days.

Nigel Farage:
This looks ghastly, I have to say.

Speaker 1:
This is kale, wheat grass, celery, and spinach.

Nigel Farage:
God, I’ll be joining the Green Party.

Speaker 1:
Cheers!

Nigel Farage:
Cheers!

Nigel Farage:
I’ve got to tell you. That is vile. Can you find a bottle of whiskey there somewhere, please? To wash away the taste. Goodness gracious.

Speaker 1:
So, your local landlord must love you. Are you on free drinks at that pub the whole time now?

Nigel Farage:
No, but I do … the funny thing is, I stop off in pubs all over the country, and pop in for what I call a pit stop. And one of the delights of this job is the number of people that buy me drinks. It’s fantastic. I had one the other day. I’m not sure [inaudible 00:02:11] earlier, so I’m not. But I stopped at a pub in Elton the other night. I walked in, and a little fellow got up. He’d gone on a bit, and he said, “Mr. Farage, I’ll buy you that drink.” I said, “well, that’s very sweet of you. Thank you.” Have a pint of that IPA, whatever, and I said, “So, what makes you want to do that?” He says, “Because you’re the dog’s bollocks.” I just thought that was rather lovely.

Nigel Farage:
No, it’s … I like to have a pint at lunchtime. I see nothing wrong with it, but it’s portrayed as if I’d spent the whole day there.

Speaker 1:
But this is an interesting question, because like political parties, you have to maximize your exposure in the media. It’s not just about what you say, it’s how you come across. So if we see David Cameron talking about something, he’s got a hard hat on to prove that he’s getting Britain back to work. If we see Ed Miliband talking about something, he’s in a hospital ward. If we see Nick Clegg, he’s got people around him to prove that people still like him. And I’m interested in when was the decision? Oh, people are really clocking onto Nigel as a man of the people. When did you decide to start doing the interviews in pubs?

Nigel Farage:
No, no, you’ve missed all of it. You’ve missed all of it. There is no planning. There is no PR. There is no hype. This is me.

Speaker 1:
Come on, they’re not just coming and finding you in the pub there. [crosstalk 00:03:17]

Nigel Farage:
Oh, they do. They do.

Speaker 1:
… and say we want an interview. You say alright, come to the [Vitlay’s 00:03:20] Arms.

Nigel Farage:
No, really, the way that it started was, with some of the newspapers, knowing the haunts that I would frequent at lunchtime, getting the photographers there. There was nothing invented about this. This is me. Take it or leave it.

Speaker 1:
And you’re not suggesting these locations when they ask for an interview.

Nigel Farage:
No, they generally come and chase me down. But, as I say, I enjoy a couple of drinks. There’s nothing wrong with it.

Speaker 1:
And when you started off in the London Metals Exchange, you’ve said that you drunk continuously sometimes. If it was a quiet week or a quiet day, you’d just be down in the pub. Is that why you learned how to handle it?

Nigel Farage:
I don’t want to glorify it. And I wouldn’t want my children spending their 20s as I did, because it’s wrong. But, slight confession, it was great fun. And-

Speaker 1:
And you talk about playing practical jokes on each other. What would that be like back then?

Nigel Farage:
It was a different world then. It was a different world. There was no political correctness. A lot of it, I suppose these days, might be construed at being cruel or bullying, but yeah, it was all this sort of Super Glue on the handsets, and confetti in the umbrellas, and all very childish.

Speaker 1:
And this doesn’t sound like Wolf of Wall Street.

Nigel Farage:
No, it wasn’t, and it’s a long, long way away from that. I mean, this was the old London, and it was a bit like a big boys’ club, really. And it’s changed, and it’s become international, become very successful. People make great, I mean huge sums of money. But the trouble is now … I look at what I used to do, interacting with people in a dealing room-

Speaker 1:
And you were on the floor doing all the shouting, right?

Nigel Farage:
I was on the floor, but in the office, too, and screaming and shouting at each other, and so a very high energy. And you go into a modern day city dealing room now, and there are people sitting at desks, surrounded by six screens, who don’t talk to anybody, and send emails to people sitting six feet away from them. And it’s absolutely silent, and it’s humorless, and the owe more money, and you know what? I hate it.

Speaker 1:
You’ve got an interesting story, actually, because with the Global Financial Crisis, a lot of people said the banks were under-regulated. You actually think over-regulating gave people a false sense of security, and if the market had been left, it would have sorted itself out.

Nigel Farage:
We had shed-loads of regulation on-

Speaker 1:
There was too much regulation.

Nigel Farage:
Masses of it, thousands of pages of it. But what we did was make a fundamental mistake. The Bank of England had regulated UK banking since 1694. It had generally done a pretty good job. We took away the Bank’s role in the late 1990s, gave it to a new regulator that was generally filled up with failures. They hadn’t made it in their own lives.

Speaker 1:
You’re very cruel about these people.

Nigel Farage:
I can’t bear them. And they fail completely. and we’ve replaced expertise, knowledge, and that sort of personal relationship approach to managing our banking to a tick-box culture, and it failed completely. And okay, it failed in America too, and it failed in some European countries. But interestingly, Australia and Canada, both of whom have got very big banking sectors didn’t need a penny piece of bailout money, because they kept to the good rules.

Speaker 1:
And that’s why we’ve got a Bank of England general governor from Canada, wasn’t it?

Nigel Farage:
Well, we have got, and he’s a very fine fellow, too. But still, he hasn’t … I would actually give him far more power than he’s got.

Speaker 1:
So I’m not huge on politics. I should watch more, I should read more. But even I know that the big UKIP policy is you want to get Great Britain out of the Eurovision.

Nigel Farage:
I think the Eurovision Song Contest has been biased for so many years now. Terry Wogan got it right. The time has come to go.

Speaker 1:
Well, we have questions from Eurovision entrants from years gone by. Let’s see the first one.

Lithuania:
Hello, Mr. Farage. Lithuania calling, and dancer of LT90. You may remember our song. We are the winners of Eurovision in 2006.

Speaker 1:
Do you remember Lithuania 2006?

Nigel Farage:
I don’t. I have to think.

Speaker 1:
Well, let’s hear his question.

Nigel Farage:
I bet it was really good.

Lithuania:
My question for Mr. Farage is, do you prefer the music of ABBA, Aha!, or Roxette when you are singing karaoke?

Speaker 1:
So when you’re singing karaoke, I mean, is it ABBA, is it Roxette? What are you singing there, Nigel?

Nigel Farage:
Well, to be absolutely honest, in the state I get to karaoke, I wouldn’t remember. But isn’t it funny how ABBA, ABBA … my young kids think ABBA is cool, because of the film and everything else.

Speaker 1:
Yeah yeah, it’s with the … well actually, our next question is from Sweden. Let’s have a listen.

Richard Herrey:
Hello, this is Sweden calling. My name is Richard Herrey, and together with my two brothers, I represented Sweden in 1984, and won the Eurovision Song Contest.

Speaker 1:
“Diggi-Loo Diggi-Ley” was their song. Do you remember that one?

Nigel Farage:
It was a source of, vaguely.

Speaker 1:
I think in the ’80s, you don’t remember much.

Nigel Farage:
Well, it was …

Speaker 1:
Let’s hear his question.

Richard Herrey:
My question for Mr. Farage is, do you enjoy riding the bicycle? And if so, do you always wear a helmet?

Nigel Farage:
I don’t enjoy riding bicycles. I don’t think our roads are suited for bicycles. But on the odd occasion when I do ride a bicycle, I don’t wear a helmet.

Speaker 1:
Hey, what do you think of this idea, appointing Jeremy Clarkson transport minister?

Nigel Farage:
Well, that’s actually marvelous. I do think the motorway speed limit’s far too low, and Jeremy would certainly sort that out.

Speaker 1:
Right, let’s have another question.

Jay Aston:
Hi, my name’s Jay Aston. I’m an original former member of Bucks Fizz. We won Eurovision in 1981 with the song called “Making Your Mind Up.”

Speaker 1:
Do you remember that? Do you remember them ripping their skirts off?

Nigel Farage:
Yeah, yeah, not quite. They didn’t take everything off. Did they?

Speaker 1:
Let’s have Jay’s question.

Jay Aston:
I’d like to ask Mr. Farage, has he made his mind up about the future of Eurovision for the UK if he was to get into power?

Speaker 1:
I mean, it’s costly, it’s undemocratic.

Nigel Farage:
I’m very, very deeply concerned about it. I think it represents all the worst there is about the European Union.

Speaker 1:
What if they introduced an Australian point style system instead of the new points?

Nigel Farage:
Well, that would be … no, that would be alright. But you watch it every year, and you just see the huge bias against us. The whole odds are stacked against us, and it’s time we withdrew.

Speaker 1:
So this year, you can’t support the UK. What country would you like to see win Eurovision?

Nigel Farage:
The Greeks, because they always had a rotten time. They need a bit of good fortune.

Speaker 1:
This is Absolute Radio. Nigel Farage is our guest today. I’m going to start the second part of the interview with what I believe to be your favorite song.

Speaker 7:
Imagine there’s no countries. It isn’t hard to do …

Nigel Farage:
[inaudible 00:09:47]

Speaker 1:
You loathe this song above all others.

Nigel Farage:
It’s terrible, isn’t it?

Speaker 1:
You call it … why you don’t like it? You call it the girdle-girdle song.

Nigel Farage:
Yeah. I mean, it just … it’s an idealism. It doesn’t-

Speaker 1:
But a lot of people when they hear that song, they think it’s a nice idea, but it’d never work. You don’t even think it’s a nice idea.

Nigel Farage:
Well, i think it’s not a nice idea, because it doesn’t work. It basically, when … that song outlines communism, doesn’t it? This wonderful idea of 100 years ago, which finished up killing tens of millions of people.

Speaker 1:
I think he was probably going more for utopia than the Soviet Union.

Nigel Farage:
Well, so were the Communists.

Speaker 1:
Aren’t we all? Aren’t we all? Isn’t everyone going for a utopia?

Nigel Farage:
I have to confess, I’m not a great John Lennon fan.

Speaker 1:
You were born in 1964. Did the songs … that would make you 13 years old when punk rock came along.

Nigel Farage:
Yeah.

Speaker 1:
No interest in punk?

Nigel Farage:
I thought it was hilarious. I loved it.

Speaker 1:
Yeah?

Nigel Farage:
Oh, I loved it.

Speaker 1:
You were into the Clash and-

Nigel Farage:
I thought the whole stranglers walking on the beaches, and I thought the whole sort of antiestablishmentism … and I think the Sex Pistols … I mean, the night of the Queen’s Silver Jubilee, the barge down the Thames, “God Save The Queen” … I laughed like a drained man.

Speaker 1:
You never went as far as the hair.

Nigel Farage:
There is a picture on the internet of me with a Mahican. And I have to say it’s not true. It has been concocted. No, I thought punk was very, very funny, and I still do.

Speaker 1:
So, when you were at school, it seemed to me that you were at one of these schools where there’s lots of clubs, and you never joined a club. You would go and learn about this, learn about a bit about this, learn about this. And a big change for you came when you had two speakers at your school. One was Enoch Powell. The other was Keith Joseph, who was a big architect of Thatcherism. And at which point, at the age of 14, you joined the Conservatives.

Nigel Farage:
Yeah.

Speaker 1:
Did your parents worry about you? 14, that’s not very rebellious, joining a political party.

Nigel Farage:
Well, it was rebellious in a funny sort of way, because actually, what Joseph represented was a political revolution. It was completely overturning everything we’d done for 25 years. And I remember when Joseph, when Keith Joseph came to the school, people standing up, and the whole screaming abuse, heckling. He was considered to be a terrible man, and I learned from that that if you challenge authority, if you take on the status quo, even whether you’re right, they’ll always be abusive about you, and I had to sort of bear a bit of that in mind in the last couple of years.

Speaker 1:
I’ve got some facts about you that people might not know.

Nigel Farage:
Oh dear.

Speaker 1:
You were once a Green voter.

Nigel Farage:
I was. It’s a terrible confession. I’d better carry on with this drink [crosstalk 00:12:13]

Speaker 1:
Have you talked in the light of that? Have you talked about the forming of the alliance with Natalie Bennett?

Nigel Farage:
Well, I mean, no, I did have counseling afterwards, obviously. I voted Green in 1989. Jonathon Porritt ran the party. Very sensible, very, very good guy. I do believe in conservation. And at the time, the Greens were a sensible party who thought that the European project would lead us into the hands of big business. As it has.

Speaker 1:
You once had a night out with Screaming Lord Sutch.

Nigel Farage:
Oh yeah. My first ever election, and it was 1994. UKIP was a brand-new party. I was the first-ever candidate. It was the the easterly bi-election in 1994, and I turned up at the whole, for the count, and met Screaming Lord Sutch. He said, “Oh hi, Nige. Alright mate.” He said, “I’ll tell you what. The rest of this lot are a bunch of bleep-bleep-bleep. Why don’t we go down the pub for a bit?” So we did.

Speaker 1:
And it was a good laugh on it right now?

Nigel Farage:
And we had a riot of a time. And I can tell you, that by a clear and crashing majority of 162 votes, I beat him and didn’t come last.

Speaker 1:
Congratulations.

Nigel Farage:
Thank you.

Speaker 1:
You owe your life to Adolph Hitler.

Nigel Farage:
Do I?

Speaker 1:
Well, you write so in your biography.

Nigel Farage:
Yeah, but I don’t remember that.

Speaker 1:
So this is about the car accident you were in when you were young, and you were hit by a Volkswagen Beetle, which of course was Hitler’s idea.

Nigel Farage:
I was.

Speaker 1:
And you think that if it had not been a Beetle, it might have finished you off.

Nigel Farage:
Well, the point was the bumpers are quite low on Beetles, so you can see where I was smashed up.

Speaker 1:
Ooh.

Nigel Farage:
But had it been-

Speaker 1:
You need to see some sun.

Nigel Farage:
Had it been … I do. Had it been a car with high bull pads, I might not be here.

Speaker 1:
Do you think when you had that, you had that plane crash, you had testicular cancer-

Nigel Farage:
I did, yeah.

Speaker 1:
Do you ever think Someone up there hates you?

Nigel Farage:
Well, no. I take the opposite view. I think to have survived all of these things is absolutely amazing. So, I owe it to myself to enjoy life.

Speaker 1:
Let me talk about something … now, you’ve been under, for many years, a lot of scrutiny about racism amongst your supporters. You’ve been very vigilant. When that has reared its head, you’ve dealt with it. You, I think more than any politician I’ve ever heard, has spent time telling us that you’re not racist. Does it keep you awake at night thinking, “What are these people hearing?” When racist people are joining your party or supporting your party, are you thinking to yourself, “What am I saying? Am I saying anything?” Do you have long, dark nights of the soul on that?

Nigel Farage:
No, I think it’s about portrayal. I mean, look, we are challenging the establishment. Just as Keith Joseph took abuse when I saw him all those years ago, we’re challenging the establishment. But we’re trying to take their jobs from them. And they are fighting back. And so, they find one person that says something horrible, and it gets blown up out of all proportion.

Speaker 1:
Quick thing on policy. You talk about renegotiating the Barnett formula. You say that Scotland’s getting too good a deal. Nicholas Sturgeon says that per head, Scotland’s actually paying more than it should. Are you worried that if it came to an EU referendum, there might be a schism in the UK as a result of that?

Nigel Farage:
It’s possible, but unlikely. Actually-

Speaker 1:
Because there’s a lot of support for the UE in Scotland, though.

Nigel Farage:
No, there isn’t actually. Scotland is marginally less eurosceptic than England. The differences between Scottish opinion and English opinion are not as wide as Nicholas Sturgeon would have you believe.

Speaker 1:
And does the same apply in Northern Ireland? Because obviously, there’s a lot of power sharing with institutions over there.

Nigel Farage:
Northern Ireland is so eurosceptic that I would be considered to be a lily-livered liberal when discussing Europe. Sinn Féin are against it. The DUP are against it. They’re all against it.

Speaker 1:
Alright, Nigel, we should let you go. Time’s up. Thank you for coming and talking to us.

Nigel Farage:
Thank you very much.

Nigel Farage Insists the UK Is Leaving the EU ‘For Better or for Worse’ Good Morning Britain

Nigel Farage:
I mean, it’s very simple. We voted to leave. To leave political union. To become an independent country. Unfortunately, the Prime Minister doesn’t really believe in that.

Nigel Farage:
So here’s the odd thing. We spent the last 30 years trying to opt out of bits of the European Union and our Prime Minister in these negotiations has been trying to opt us back into bits of the European Union.

Nigel Farage:
There is a way through this, the European Union now in Brussels are ready to do a free trade deal with, I picked up that mood last week, very distinctly, when I was over there. Why don’t we just get rid of checkers, get rid of regulator alignment, get rid of us staying close to it.

Matt Kelly:
And I think this whole idea that it’s simple and people just want to leave ignores the complexity underneath it. And the reality that within that simple statement there is a huge, huge mess that is unpickable. And we’ve been through two years now of people trying to unpick it and the government still can’t decide what it means.

Matt Kelly:
Yeah. How do we expect all of these people who voted in very good faith to leave?

Piers Morgan:
If it’s so complicated.

Matt Kelly:
Yeah.

Piers Morgan:
Why would we expect the electorate to be any better equipped to deal with this vote now than they were two years ago?

Matt Kelly:
I completely agree. I think the electorate are ill equipped, but I think Westminster-

Piers Morgan:
So why have a people’s vote then?

Matt Kelly:
Westminster is even worse to deal with it.

Piers Morgan:
Right, but it’s their job as- [crosstalk 00:01:14]

Matt Kelly:
It’s complete logjams.

Piers Morgan:
My point is you campaigning for people’s vote, right? I would argue as someone who voted remain, there’s already been a people’s vote and you have to respect it. You don’t want to do that. You want a second vote, but my point is if the electorate is deemed to be so ill equipped to deal with something so complex, why trust them with another vote?

Matt Kelly:
Because I think now it’s a bad job and we’ve got to make the best of it.

Matt Kelly:
My personal view, and I’m sorry to sound depressing on this, is that we have done ourselves enormous damage whatever happens. And there’s no pretty way out of this.

Piers Morgan:
But you would say that because you’re the editor of the New European. Somebody who’s [crosstalk 00:01:46] complain.

Matt Kelly:
I say that because I believe it.

Nigel Farage:
But this idea-

Piers Morgan:
No, I [crosstalk 00:01:48] you, but Nigel fundamentally, you believe, Nigel fundamentally believes the complete opposite. Do you accept-?

Matt Kelly:
Do you? Do you believe that this has done us any good?

Nigel Farage:
I, well, of course-

Matt Kelly:
What? The last two years has been good for Great Britain?

Nigel Farage:
What price freedom? What price independence?

Matt Kelly:
What do you mean by freedom?

Nigel Farage:
That is, this not a vote about economics. You know, I’m tired of hearing the pro EU side telling us foreign direct investment will leave. The city will close. It’ll be a disaster. We heard that over the Euro.

Matt Kelly:
I’m not saying-

Nigel Farage:
20 years ago, and we’re hearing the same thing from your side of the argument now. I also really object to the idea that people did not know what they were voting for. They did. They absolutely knew what they were voting for-

Matt Kelly:
No they didn’t.

Nigel Farage:
And they were threatened.

Matt Kelly:
No they didn’t.

Nigel Farage:
They were told-

Susanna Reid:
Nigel, even you-

Nigel Farage:
They were told-

Susanna Reid:
Nigel, even you admit it.

Nigel Farage:
… told that terrible things would happen.

Susanna Reid:
But even you admitted, the morning after the referendum on this program that one of the central tenets of the referendum campaign, 350 million on the side of a bus for the NHS, was not going to happen.

Nigel Farage:
That was- Let me-

Susanna Reid:
So you acknowledged that people didn’t know what they were voting for.

Nigel Farage:
That was … If that was an inaccuracy from Boris, it was nothing compared to 50 years of lies that we’ve been given.

Matt Kelly:
Nigel-

Nigel Farage:
Being told this is just about trade. It’s not, this is about politics. We have voted to run our own country for better or worse, richer or poorer, till death us do part. That is our decision and the idea that this should be forced upon the people again.

Nigel Farage:
I’ll tell you something, the breakdown in trust and belief, not just in our politicians but in our entire democratic system will be irreparable.

Matt Kelly:
What do you mean will be? It already is?

Nigel Farage:
If people are made to vote again.

Matt Kelly:
It’s completely gone already. I mean we’re in, the politics has completely lost.

Nigel Farage:
Well, I certainly … Certainly politicians aren’t popular. But-

Matt Kelly:
But one of the reasons, Nigel, that they’re not popular-

Nigel Farage:
But you told people-

Matt Kelly:
Is that you come out with all of these abstract concepts-

Nigel Farage:
You told people, you told people-

Matt Kelly:
Like and sovereigncy and freedom of the people and will of the people-

Nigel Farage:
How is freedom abstract?

Matt Kelly:
And you haven’t got the plan.

Nigel Farage:
How is freedom-

Matt Kelly:
You haven’t got a plan.

Nigel Farage:
But if you think freedom’s abstract, we’ve absolutely, we’ve got to the heart now-

Matt Kelly:
What is it? What is it? What is it?

Nigel Farage:
Of what all of us need to understand.

Matt Kelly:
What does it qualify? I’ll tell you what’s not abstract-

Nigel Farage:
You control your own borders. You make your own laws. You run your own country.

Matt Kelly:
No, it’s not.

Nigel Farage:
And you are the masters of your own destiny-

Matt Kelly:
We ran our own- We were masters-

Nigel Farage:
Not governed.

Matt Kelly:
We were mass-

Nigel Farage:
Not governed.

Matt Kelly:
Nigel-

Nigel Farage:
By a bunch of old men in Brussels.

Matt Kelly:
We were masters of our destiny when we chose to enter the European Union-

Nigel Farage:
We were lied to.

Matt Kelly:
Because we thought it was better for our economy.

Nigel Farage:
Because we were lied to.

Matt Kelly:
And it was better for our economy.

Nigel Farage:
Hang on, my parents voted for free trade.

Matt Kelly:
We were the fastest-

Nigel Farage:
Not for political domination.

Matt Kelly:
We were the fastest growing economy in the G7 before this. Now we’re the slowest. The European Union has-

Nigel Farage:
We’re not the slowest. Italy is slower than us.

Matt Kelly:
The European Union-

Nigel Farage:
Stop lying with the figures.

Matt Kelly:
I’m not lying. If-

Nigel Farage:
Italy are slower than we are.

Matt Kelly:
No. We are the slowest-

Susanna Reid:
Do you know what? I can imagine people at home-

Matt Kelly:
Slowest growing economy in the G7.

Susanna Reid:
Being absolutely fed up-

Nigel Farage:
because no one cares about the economics-

Matt Kelly:
I agree with that.

Nigel Farage:
But nobody believes the economics. This is simple.

Susanna Reid:
Nigel, is-

Nigel Farage:
It’s not about me saying we’d be better off, or you saying we’d be worse off. It’s about do we govern our own country or don’t we?

Susanna Reid:
Okay.

Matt Kelly:
No it’s not about that. It’s not about that.

Nigel Farage:
That is what Brexit’s about.

Susanna Reid:
Nigel, okay, is Theresa May in a position to get a good deal for the UK or should someone else take over?

Nigel Farage:
If she sticks to the checkers plan we will finish up in a worse place than we are today. We will effectively still be taking European rules, still paying money, still having a foreign court overseeing us, still have open borders and have zero say on any of it. Either May chucks checkers and does it quickly or the party will chuck her.

Piers Morgan:
Okay. Matt. Let me ask you this. On the people’s vote, what would the question be? Assuming we get to a peoples vote, which may happen, I mean it may be that nothing else will work. We get to a people’s vote. What would the question be for the public the second time around?

Matt Kelly:
So I think the first thing to say is that that should be the one thing that we can now leave to our parliamentarians to decide.

Piers Morgan:
But you’re the editor of the New European-

Matt Kelly:
But, yes, so I would say it should be binary. I don’t, this idea that there’s three things is going to split something.

Susanna Reid:
Right, it can’t be.

Piers Morgan:
So what would it be?

Matt Kelly:
So it would be whatever the deal on the table is versus remaining in the European Union.

Piers Morgan:
Do you accept the deal that’s on the table or do you stay in?

Matt Kelly:
Yes.

Nigel Farage:
Or do you leave? Or do you leave.

Matt Kelly:
And to me-

Nigel Farage:
Do you accept the deal or do you leave?

Susanna Reid:
Or do you go back and renegotiate?

Matt Kelly:
No, I wouldn’t go back. I honestly, I think we’ve wasted two years.

Piers Morgan:
But at the [crosstalk 00:05:33]

Nigel Farage:
You can’t have this both ways.

Piers Morgan:
But Matt, here’s the problem-

Nigel Farage:
We voted already.

Piers Morgan:
Here’s my problem. I would love us to go back in. I’m a remainer really at heart, I don’t know why we’re doing this. However, hasn’t he got a point? If you don’t make leaving one of the options, maybe the deal on the table is nothing that he says represents Brexit at all.

Matt Kelly:
But isn’t that just a complete picture of the whole problem that no one can decide what Brexit means because it’s unknowable? Brexit does not work.

Piers Morgan:
But that is a failure of Theresa May and her leadership.

Matt Kelly:
No, it’s a failure of the question.

Piers Morgan:
Somebody who, by the way, is a remainer who therefore doesn’t really believe in where the train’s going anyway.

Matt Kelly:
You know the best analogy in this whole thing has been about they’re picking the eggs out of the omelette after it’s been made. You cannot take the eggs out once they’ve been cracked. We’re too far depp.

Piers Morgan:
If it were the other way round, if remain had won 52-48-

Matt Kelly:
Would he have stopped?

Piers Morgan:
Would you have accepted?

Nigel Farage:
There would be no debate.

Piers Morgan:
Would you-

Nigel Farage:
There wouldn’t be a debate.

Piers Morgan:
Would you have accepted that there could be a second referendum if Nigel demanded one?

Nigel Farage:
There wouldn’t be a debate.

Matt Kelly:
Well Nigel said it was unfinished business. He’s on record saying 52-48-

Nigel Farage:
No, no, no. I said some would not reconcile themselves-

Matt Kelly:
No you didn’t.

Nigel Farage:
But it will be at least 20 years before we had any prospect of a referendum-

Matt Kelly:
Hold on-

Nigel Farage:
How look, we have made a decision-

Matt Kelly:
Fake news though. Fake news.

Nigel Farage:
You are quite entitled to call for a second referendum on this, quite entitled. Once we’ve left and given this a few years to see whether it works. I would respect that.

Matt Kelly:
We’ve given it a few years.

Nigel Farage:
But the idea, before we’ve even left the European Union, that you should force people to vote again because you think they’re ignorant peasants-

Matt Kelly:
What are you scared of?

Nigel Farage:
Who didn’t get it right.

Matt Kelly:
What are you scared of?

Susanna Reid:
On that, but can I put one thing-

Nigel Farage:
It took us 40 years to get a referendum out of you.

Susanna Reid:
You don’t want there to be a deal because you want to stay. If we did a referendum on this is the deal or we stay, surely that kiboshes the negotiations because the EU would have no motivation to give us a good deal because if they give us a bad deal, they know that the public would vote against it and stay in the EU.

Matt Kelly:
I’m not convinced that the EU are that cynical and you’ll laugh.

Piers Morgan:
Come on, Matt, come on.

Matt Kelly:
No, no, I’m not. I’m not. I think the EU-

Susanna Reid:
They want the UK to stay as part of the EU-

Piers Morgan:
Just look at Junker.

Susanna Reid:
because they don’t want other countries to go that way.

Matt Kelly:
Junker’s not the point, is it? Junker’s not the point.

Piers Morgan:
Look at [inaudible 00:07:28], they want to screw us in the ground.

Matt Kelly:
They’re not point. Ultimately it’s going to come down to-

Piers Morgan:
It’s not in their interest to do any good deal with us over this, is it? Because if we do a good deal and it’s beneficial to this country, everybody also will want to do it.

Nigel Farage:
The Danes will want to leave. The Italians … I mean the whole European project is crumbling around its ears anyway.

Piers Morgan:
It all hinges actually on how this gets resolved. That’s why it’s so important. But I come back to this people’s vote. If the only options are take this deal, which many Brexiteers may feel a time it washes up on a table to be voted on is no where near what they thought they voted for, or to stay in. What you’re really saying is a Brexit option as most Brexiteers define it no longer exists as an option to vote.

Matt Kelly:
But that’s not my fault. That’s the fault of the fact that Brexit is completely undefinable.

Piers Morgan:
But that’s what you would like because it basically basically means Brexit becomes no longer an option.

Matt Kelly:
Yeah. No, let me just say what I would like, right? Nigel’s full of his abstracts around freedom of the country itself.

Susanna Reid:
Yeah. But they’re very powerful.

Nigel Farage:
It’s the sort of thing our grandparetns used to fight for, it really matters.

Matt Kelly:
Yeah. I know that, but hang on, let me say something.

Nigel Farage:
Being a free country actually matter.

Matt Kelly:
Let me say something. I suggest that we are a free country and I think it’s absolutely insulting to the idea that Westminster isn’t a sovereign nation. What are the load of nonsense.

Nigel Farage:
You gave it away.

Matt Kelly:
Listen, what I’m more interested in is the people who voted in good faith in Sunderland, in north east of the country, in Wales, who voted believing that almost overnight their lives are going to improve because that’s what people told them. That now they’re sitting there thinking, hang on, all I’m hearing is a procession of bad news. I’m not saying it’s going to be a catastrophe. I don’t. I think this language of extremes is really damaging. But what I am saying is that where is the obvious upside now? And if you’re a betting person and if you’re betting on your family’s life, your future, you’re going to be okay with your nice pension, but these people-

Nigel Farage:
You would say let’s get out of this failing European project-

Matt Kelly:
No you wouldn’t.

Nigel Farage:
You’ve got populism rising-

Matt Kelly:
That’s politics.

Nigel Farage:
To give every country in Europe this idea-

Matt Kelly:
You present yourself as an anti-politician. You’re not-

Nigel Farage:
… of a European government, a European government-

Susanna Reid:
Do you think-

Nigel Farage:
… governed by an unelected European Commission is unacceptable for the whole of Europe.

Matt Kelly:
This is the elites talking.

Nigel Farage:
And we are the first getting out thank goodness.

Matt Kelly:
This is elites talking.

Piers Morgan:
But Matt, there is a slight self-righteousness about your position, which is that you-

Matt Kelly:
There’s all, you know me Piers.

Piers Morgan:
Of course, I mean we used to work together. [crosstalk 00:09:45]

Susanna Reid:
Is that yes I’m self righteous or no I’m not?

Matt Kelly:
If it’s within my nature, I am genetically self-righteous.

Piers Morgan:
We worked together for years at the Mirror and I have to say, nothing to do with this debate, but the New Europe has been a brilliant success story.

Matt Kelly:
Thank you.

Piers Morgan:
In a business that is actually really struggling, newspapers, and you’ve got it going and it has a following of people. You get hold of credible writers and I take my hat off to you. My problem with it is there is this, I feel it when I talked to Allister Campbell and lots of other very fervent remainers, there’s a self righteousness about them being absolutely right.

Susanna Reid:
Shouldn’t you believe you’re right?

Matt Kelly:
No, I don’t-

Piers Morgan:
Well hang on. My point is this, and yet nobody knows, the best interview I saw recently was some Lord last week. He said, here’s the bottom line, he said, Skylar, he said none of us know what’s going to happen. The truthful answer is we don’t really know.

Matt Kelly:
Piers, this is entirely my position.

Piers Morgan:
But all your pretext is it’s going to be bad.

Matt Kelly:
No, that’s not my pretext.

Piers Morgan:
Even thought we haven’t haven’t left yet.

Matt Kelly:
No, you’re misrepresenting me. My pretext is there’s not enough obvious upside to take this enormous gamble with all our futures. There’s just isn’t.

Piers Morgan:
Nigel, respond to that.

Nigel Farage:
Do you know what? None of us can predict what will happen leaving the European Union or staying in the European Union.

Matt Kelly:
What are the upsides?

Nigel Farage:
And of that is the absolute truth of it.

Matt Kelly:
What are the upsides?

Nigel Farage:
But in a world that is rapidly changing and given that the eurozone is now only 15% of the global economy, let’s get with the 21st century. Let’s not obsess with Europe. Let’s get our independence and let’s start looking globally-

Matt Kelly:
How can you not, how can you not obsess?

Nigel Farage:
Let’s think globally about our future. There is a big, exciting future out there.

Matt Kelly:
How can you not obsess with the biggest trading block in the world? [crosstalk 00:11:10]

Nigel Farage:
It’s diminishing every year that goes by.

Piers Morgan:
Time out. Before we finish this debate, I want to just talk to you, Nigel, about part of the problem are that some of the voices in Europe that you in particular have been supportive of and have been very supportive of you, are what many people in this country believe are highly undesirable people.

Matt Kelly:
Fascists.

Piers Morgan:
Viktor Orbán, right? That Hungary prime minister who is clearly very antisemitic, for example, at a time when antisemitism is a huge debate in this country.

Nigel Farage:
Well ask the Labor Party about that.

Piers Morgan:
But how can you align yourself in any way with somebody who is so demonstrably antisemitic?

Nigel Farage:
I think the real point about Viktor Orbán is that he does not accept mass migration into Hungary, particularly-

Piers Morgan:
But he’s antisemitic.

Nigel Farage:
I’ve never seen it. I’ve never seen it.

Piers Morgan:
You’ve never seen it?

Nigel Farage:
No, I really haven’t. What I have seen is he is worried about mass Muslim immigration into Hungary fundamentally changing the country, but let me just say this Piers, the reason you’ve got the growth of brand new parties, and I have to say there are many of them that I would not support or want supporting me. The reason is that the cold concept of free movement of people and of anybody crossing the Mediterranean being allowed in has spawned a new kind of politics.

Piers Morgan:
Do you feel-

Nigel Farage:
It is all because of the failure, the failure-

Piers Morgan:
Okay, let me ask you this.

Nigel Farage:
Of those that support the European Union.

Piers Morgan:
Okay, but do you feel that Jewish people have no homeland but feel the whole world is theirs?

Nigel Farage:
I would never subscribe to that.

Piers Morgan:
And what would you think about somebody who said that?

Nigel Farage:
Well, I wouldn’t vote labor, that’s for certain.

Matt Kelly:
Can I make a point?

Piers Morgan:
What would you say about somebody who said that?

Nigel Farage:
Well, if that’s the Labor party that I’ve … Piers, Piers, look-

Piers Morgan:
No, that’s Viktor Orbán.

Matt Kelly:
That’s Viktor Orbán.

Nigel Farage:
I’m not here to support-

Piers Morgan:
But wouldn’t it help you?

Nigel Farage:
I am not here to support the far left in Greece. Let’s forget, you know, don’t forget for a minute it was the far left in Greece that [crosstalk 00:12:49] government.

Piers Morgan:
But what about this guy Orbán who’s been so effusive about you in public and you’ve been supportive about him in public, right? It doesn’t help your cause to be aligning yourself with people like that.

Nigel Farage:
I’m not aligned with him, but let’s make the point-

Piers Morgan:
Would you denounce what he said about Jewish people?

Nigel Farage:
Piers, Piers, Piers, he is the democratically elected leader of Hungary, reelected last year with a big majority. He does not accept that mass migration within Europe is a success. That is what it is really all about.

Piers Morgan:
He’s also an antisemite.

Matt Kelly:
Can I make a very quick point on Orbán? Can I make a very quick point? Yesterday we had Michael Gove-

Nigel Farage:
Let me tell you, culturally, culturally you will [inaudible 00:13:18] that.

Matt Kelly:
We had Michael Gove on BBC TV, effectively saying that Britain is no longer in a position to call out antisemitic fascist regimes because we’ve got to do a Brexit deal with them.

Susanna Reid:
We need them to be on our side.

Matt Kelly:
That’s some sovereignty this is turning out to be.

Nigel Farage:
We might get an anti Semite government in this country if Corbyn takes over.

Matt Kelly:
Some taking back control. Honestly.

Nigel Farage:
Let’s at least get perspective. New politics is happening in Europe because of the failure of the European Union. Mass migration is not what the public want anywhere in Europe.